Autor Wątek: hello, USA....english, espanol?  (Przeczytany 4827 razy)

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Offline Mike Perrin

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hello, USA....english, espanol?
« dnia: 09-09-2006, 17:21:30 »
Hello,  I am Mike Perrin , one of the two designers of the RAT series of knives at Ontario Knife Co.. I live in Tennessee, USA and Jeff Randall is my partner and lives in Alabama, USA.   Wysz  directed me here but I am afraid I cannot communicate except in the English or Spanish language.  If you have problems or questions about our knives I will get Wysz to help with the language barrier and I can at least find out answers from Ontario directly if you have questions.  Otherwise I'll sit back and watch Wysz drive this wagon:)  Nice forum.    Mike

Offline wojtekn

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: 09-09-2006, 17:40:42 »
Welcome Mike, I think that language is not a problem:)
nice to see you here
make youreself at home
c'ya
wojtekn
NIE ROBIE NOZY NA ZAMÓWIENIE
koń roboczy nie musi być uwalony gównem po samą grzywę, żeby był roboczy[pecado]
Nie każdy chce żeby jego wiedza (i niektóre kruczki podnoszące jakość i estetykę) wyszła, że tak napiszę - na jaw!

Offline rybak

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: 09-09-2006, 17:48:33 »
Hello Mike and welcome to the forum.

You can communicate in English without problems here, many users speak English or can at least understand it.

Nice to see You  :)
Jakigoś mje Ponie Buoze stwuozył, takigo mje mos... ن

Offline pecado

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: 09-09-2006, 18:02:12 »
Hi Mike :-)
Welcome to the forum!

Where have you lost Jeff? ;)
pozdrawiam
pecado
Fanklub Taktycznej Rusałki |#| Barankom mówię moje stanowcze nie :mad:
hokka hey hadree hadree succomee succomee

Offline Wiko

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: 09-09-2006, 18:51:28 »
Welcome!

Most of us know at least the most essential English words and terms, like: hollow ground, cryo-treated, convex, double-edged ;)

Good to see you here.

W.

Offline wysz

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: 09-09-2006, 19:27:13 »
Welcome Mike! Great to have you here!

Offline Smokey_

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: 09-09-2006, 19:53:19 »
O my God! Nice to see you here! Welcome aboard.
Pozdrawiam
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.ni99a.foxnet.pl/cygara/ <------ P O L E C A M

Offline Mike Perrin

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Re: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: 09-09-2006, 19:55:01 »
One of the things Jeff and I both worry about is cost.  One of the basic tenants of our philosophy for designing knives is that it has to be affordable amoung other things.    I know for instance when our knives are exported to England the cost goes up considerably due to taxes and then our knives are not so affordable.  Some of the internet knife companies located in the U.S. like Cumberland Knife Works sell all over the world but the buyer still has the duties and taxes to pay.   Jeff and I have been trying to work on setting up non-U.S. accounts/dealers to run the cost down a bit but it is still difficult.    We have a few over seas accounts but I am told they are still pricey compared to what you can buy the knives for here in the U.S..   If anyone has ideas or thoughts about keeping costs down for non-U.S. markets I'm all ears.     And thanks for the welcome:)  Mike

Offline Wiko

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: 09-09-2006, 20:16:43 »
Unless one wants to do something illegal, like smuggling the case of knives to Poland and selling it via private channels, one needs to consider the following elements:
- manufacturer's price /usually depending on quantity/
- shipping costs per unit /usually depending on quantity/
- custom duties
- VAT (a clever invention of always greedy bureaucrats - it resembles your state sales tax, but in Poland on most goods it is as much as 22% of the net price)
- dealer's markup

You can do nothing about customs duties and VAT (at present about 30-40 % on the top of a manufacturer's/wholesaler's price of an imported fixed blade).

What you can do is to find a reliable dealer in Poland, ship them knives in a larger quantity to lower S&H costs and ask them to keep their markup on a reasonable level of let's say 20-30%. Unfortunately this will still make knives nearly 100% more expensive than at discounted US retailers, unless you decide to give Polish dealers some discount on your prices. As a rule everything here is at least 100% more expensive than in the US so there is some room to move, for sure. This could help in terms of sales volume, because most of us do not earn anything near to the US wages and for some o us, a decent knife costs half of a monthly income.

Regards,

W.

Offline Mike Perrin

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cost
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: 09-09-2006, 20:57:20 »
I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.:)  The VAT thing is a hell of a tax!    So a net price from the manufacturer of $55 usd for a knife is 'vat-ed' into $77 then add the shipping costs, customs, duites and maybe a very modest dealer markup of 15% so the knife then parks on the sales shelf at around $110 usd? 

There are a couple of ideas here though that give me points to press Ontario for.  If an overseas distributor started out with the lowest possible price point that Ontario gives then that is a start.  ANd Jeff and I have been sucessful to a degree on getting Ontario to give the lowest pricing for overseas accounts to help on the pricing at the retail level.  One of the sticking points we have had is that Ontario will not extend any credit to overseas accounts.  Understandably it is because of the difficulty of collecting bad debts overseas where laws can vary.  But the bottom line is the overseas accounts do not have the advantage that domestic accounts have to 'float' the payment on a shipment for 30 or 60 days.  Still we were successful in setting up one in South Africa and working on one in Greece.  We already had  Australian and Dutch dealers that were handling our knives.  But half a month's wages is WAY too much to pay for a knife.  Then again that may be a reflection of how much out of touch I am with reality in your part of the world?      I just don't think anybody should have to pay more than a couple of days wages for a reliable tool like a knife. 

   Something we did manage to get Ontario to do is to export it's own bayonets.  Granted these are not the RAT knives but a lot of the customers that wanted to buy bayonets would also want our knives.  Ontario had been selling them through domestic distributors only then the distributor was exporting the bayonets.  But now Ontario is in the system of export licensing for controled products of which bayonets are the only knife listed by U.S. Commerce as controlled and needing a license to export.  This was in itself a cost-saving step for the buyer because it cut out one markup by the domestic distributor. 

  The only good thing I see here is that Jeff and I do strictly enforce our own customer service policies for thr RAT knives which generally is a no hassel replacement for problems with RAT knives.  I've replaced knives that had problems (not many:)) all over the world, including Poland.

   I think lowest pricing and larger shipping volumes could help a lot like you say.  Maybe two or three dealers within a country could 'batch' their orders together to cut the shipping costs.  But  maybe there isn't enough market to warrant two or three dealers in one country like Poland to do this.       Mike
   

Offline rybak

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Odp: cost
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: 09-09-2006, 21:45:47 »
I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.:)  The VAT thing is a hell of a tax!    So a net price from the manufacturer of $55 usd for a knife is 'vat-ed' into $77 then add the shipping costs, customs, duites and maybe a very modest dealer markup of 15% so the knife then parks on the sales shelf at around $110 usd? 

It works not so really that way, however Your final price level of 110$ may be right.

If You buy a knife, let me say, as a private person at NGK for 55$, the VAT-tax amount is calculated on the basis of the online-shop price AND shipping costs AND customs.

So You have at start 55+25$ (usual price for insured shipping by USPS Global Express), then You have to add variable customs duties (for different knives, for fixed You have to pay additional punitive tariff duty due to "steel-war" between USA and European Union, folders are free of it) of 9-28%, and then the VAT-tax.

In the "worst case" You may have to pay in Poland 80*1.28*1.22 = 125$

I don't know if somebody had already to pay such amount, but You can't exclude such possibility.

Of course the price calculation in case of selling the knives by a polish dealer who buys larger quantities from the manufacturer would  be different.
Jakigoś mje Ponie Buoze stwuozył, takigo mje mos... ن

Offline Wiko

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: 09-09-2006, 21:54:48 »
[A short explanation in Polish for our users]

Mike pytał co mogą zrobić, aby uzyskać niższe ceny swoich noży, między innymi w Polsce.
Napisałem mu o składnikach polskiej ceny:
- jednostkowa cena producenta/dystrybutora w USA
- jednostkowe koszty przesyłki
- cło
- VAT
- marża dealera w Polsce

Dwa pierwsze składniki zależą od ilości. Taniej wychodzi wysłać 100 noży niż 1 i niższą cenę można uzyskać kupując 100 niż 1.

Mike zdziwił się wysokością VAT (22%). W Stanach tzw. Sales Tax to zazwyczaj 7-8%. W jednym stanie w ogóle go nie ma. Napisałem mu, że dla niektórych z nas dobry nóż to połowa miesięcznej pensji. No i teraz się dalej zastanawia jak zrobić, żeby ich noże były u nas tańsze.

[/end of Polish]


Cytat: Mike Perrin
I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.:)  The VAT thing is a hell of a tax!   
O yes. They brought it in very quietly, when the communism fell. We had 1% sales tax, and then suddenly it was changed into 22% VAT on most goods.


So a net price from the manufacturer of $55 usd for a knife is 'vat-ed' into $77 then add the shipping costs, customs, duites and maybe a very modest dealer markup of 15% so the knife then parks on the sales shelf at around $110 usd? 


Yes. Let's look at an example. A well known Polish dealer, Military.pl

Ontario Freedom Fighter Combat
http://military.pl/?prod=856&cat=150

290 PLN / 3,13 PLN/USD = $92.6

PLN = Polish New Zloty, USD = US Dollar

The same knife found at the first retailer I Googled in the US:
$42.55 less than half of the price
http://www.knifecore.com/store/product.php?productid=17799&cat=0&page=1

and we even did not started to look for bargains on eBay or very discounted online retailers.

Regards,

W.


cytat przeformatowalem, zeby bylo bardziej przejrzyscie - rybak
« Ostatnia zmiana: 09-09-2006, 22:03:16 wysłana przez rybak »

Offline Chango

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: 14-09-2006, 14:28:19 »
Hola, si puede escriba en espańol tambien, porfa, porque no comprendo ingles y el tema me interesa mucho, mucha gracia
Chango
« Ostatnia zmiana: 14-09-2006, 14:39:19 wysłana przez Chango »

Offline Mike Perrin

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Re: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: 14-09-2006, 15:15:52 »
Intiendo.  Aqui  <http://ets.freetranslation.com/>   puede traducir Ingles a Espanol o Espanol a Ingles.  Yo escribir  Espanol si tu recordar mi puedo mi Espanol es mismo el nino con seis anos.:)  Mike

Offline Chango

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: 14-09-2006, 19:16:05 »
Gracias Mike, pero si no es problema yo voy a escribir en espańol. :cheesey:

Offline NAZIR

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #15 dnia: 14-09-2006, 20:12:57 »
Hello Mike!

But half a month's wages is WAY too much to pay for a knife...
...I just don't think anybody should have to pay more than a couple of days wages for a reliable tool like a knife..."

Well, now You can imagine how dedicated knife junkies we are.  ;)
uważam, że powinno się robić tak, ażeby nie było krytyki, tylko aplauz i zaakceptowanie

"A blade with no tip is like a breast with no nipple -- its pointless." - Michael Burch

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #16 dnia: 14-09-2006, 20:16:18 »
Sometimes it's a matter of decission: you eat, or have a knife. Most of us are rather thin ;)
I never wanted to be different. I just wanted to be me.
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Offline kiedi

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Odp: hello, USA....english, espanol?
« Odpowiedź #17 dnia: 14-09-2006, 20:37:29 »
Nie znam prawa celnego zbyt dobrze, ale jak się ma sprawa z montażem sprzętu na terenie unii? W ten sposób firmy motoryzacyjne unikają stawek celnych.

Maybe a little factory to assembly knives in European union? I know customs law faintly but in this way motor concerns avoid customs rates.


edit/ może ktoś poprawi moje tłumaczenie  :dead:
« Ostatnia zmiana: 14-09-2006, 20:39:14 wysłana przez kiedi »
Ja nie knifemaker, ja tylko noże dłubie

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